this post was submitted on 26 May 2024
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Futurology
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No Management. Management means some rich guys trying to control that for cheap labor.
No management means millions dying from hunger or preventable disease, entire cities falling into dangerous disrepair and causing danger to remaining people or the animals that inhabit them when we leave, war, slavery, abandoned older gen nuclear sites melting down and probably 100 other calamities I can't imagine.
Thats complete BS birth rates aim naturally towards sustainable levels (1,5 to 2) when you actually think that having less people is bad you are the problem. We don't die out, we just have less people, and at the same time many jobs will be taken by automation.
Nature doesn't "aim" for anything...including sustainability.
if 1.5 - 2 was the "natural" birthrate, the population wouldn't have ever increased to this level.
I already I agree that there are too many humans. But countries with decreasing populations also have aging populations, which won't be able to feed or care for those people without young workers. Meaning they either starve, start invading other countries with robot armies to capture slave laborers and resources, or...someone manages the decline through immigration policy, tearing down unneeded infrastructure and recycling those materials, etc.
https://youtu.be/NMo3nZHVrZ4
https://youtu.be/QsBT5EQt348
Here are two Kurtzgesagt videos that might help to educate you on this topic, even though they are a rudimentary explanation and don't go into too much detail, even a child should be able to understand them.
TLDR: 1. Wrong 2. Completely wrong 3. Mental gymnastics on Olympics level. For further details watch the videos and maybe educate yourself with the help of the internet, try to avoid a confirmation bias because many people like you blast out their OPINION and frame it as facts.
Btw
https://youtu.be/owBhCgqGrS0
Upvoted for Kurtzgesagt. De-upvoted for the condescending tone of the comment.
Bro did you read what this guy said?
Thinly veiled ad hominem attacks notwithstanding...
Here's a peer-reviewed published study detailing how 30 invasive species have led to the extension of 738 other species. They all continue to grow at unsustainable levels until the ecosystem collapses and a new equilibrium is left in the ruins. They aren't YouTube videos, but I'm confident you can read.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1602480113
In case you can't, here's another actual scientific article (I hope you'll look. This one has pictures!) detailing how declining populations are also aging populations and the problems that result.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9577145/#:~:text=Declining%20in%20the%20proportion%20of,increasing%20number%20of%20senior%20citizens
Has exactly nothing to do with the topic. Even though your OPINION might suggest that.
Speaking about economic problems because there are 4 pensioners needing to be covered by 1 worker, but not about the collapse of the world or nuclear melt downs. Ive not once said that there are no problems, I've said that trying to manag birth rates leads to exploitation. Furthermore this will just not work or postpone the problem.
You are wrong as seen in the numerous sources from the videos I've linked.
"No management means millions dying from hunger or preventable disease, entire cities falling into dangerous disrepair and causing danger to remaining people or the animals that inhabit them when we leave, war, slavery, abandoned older gen nuclear sites melting down and probably 100 other calamities I can't imagine." -🤡
You're still speaking to me like you're a petulant child.
Decommissioning a nuclear plant is a 15 - 30 year process. If you don't safely shutdown the reactor and manage the spend fuel, you end up with a radioactive hellscape. I'm sorry, but thems the facts.
Humans are animals, and we act like animals. Just like any other species. There are very few nations that have zero population growth...the vast majority are either expanding or contracting. I like kurzgesagt, too, but by your own definition (and theirs), they are extremely simplified explanations of complex topics.
The only evidence I have that economic collapse leads to war is all of human history, but here's some research in that as well. https://www.insidescience.org/news/how-famines-and-epidemics-trigger-wars.
The original post was soliciting opinions about what we should do. Yours was "nothing", mine was "make it as painless as possible." Those are both opinions, and opinions are what was asked for. I based mine on scientific literature, and you based yours on some YouTube videos.
I hope you're as young as you're acting and you've still got time to grow up...otherwise you're gonna end up lonely or burying yourself in echo chambers because you can't handle discussions that don't validate your gut reaction.
I talk to you like you are 6 because you literally act like a year old. That's why i recommend you Kurtzgesagt videos, wich simplify the highly complex sources they have so that even people like you should understand. If you seriously don't like the video that explains complex things as simple as possible to you, look into their source documents.
You are just not able to understand that you just speak BS and your opinion on this is BS in general. When you think that we need to increase the birth rate because we need a handful of people working in a nuclear power plant firstly you should question if nuclear is a good idea or if we should invest in actually renewable energy. Then you should think about how good these jobs are paid and that even they fall in numbers because automation is a very big and important thing.
Cool economic collapse leads to problems. How about managing the fucking economy better instead, way easier and way more useful as that would also benefit in many other ways.
Lastly, lemmy.world is a Echo chamber so maybe you sit inside one...
I based my opinion on scientific evidence that is the source document of the Kurtzgesagt videos i linked. An some other sources besides that. You based your opinion on one sided framed Papers.
I hope you go outside, touch some grass and maybe educate yourself afterwards.
Ps.: besides China and India (wich had a super massive population spike and then (for China) a 1 child policy) the population drop is very much manageable at the current rate in a economically stable way. Be more efficient.
I thought you wanted to avoid managing the process?
The managing of birth rates. Specially that managing. Every other managing is another thing wich must be discussed individually.