A Boring Dystopia

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Many universities calling in police today also celebrate campus protests of the past (www.motherjones.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20240503114919/https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/05/many-universities-calling-in-police-today-also-celebrate-campus-protests-of-the-past-elite-capture/

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

A person makes a decision. If that decision is almost certainly going to result in the deaths of children, it is the wrong decision. You will never face a simpler moral scenario than this.

People can argue about justifications in good faith, of course… although ironically in this case, we can’t even do that, since we both know that bombing Gaza does nothing to ameliorate the conflict and everything to exacerbate it.

Also, this isn’t a war. Wars are fought between nations, and Israel does not recognize Palestine’s sovereignty. Gaza has no self-determination. There’s no government. It is a prison full of children. An abomination for which no civilian living in Gaza bears any responsibility.

Lastly, nations don’t have rights. Nations are imaginary political constructs. People have rights, such as to defend themselves, as you say. However, bombing Gaza not only undermines Israel’s sovereignty by inciting an entire new generation of revulsion and hatred, it violates the rights of children not to be blown to bits. None of this is complex. None of it is morally ambiguous.

As for those “Western allies” you mentioned: you don’t have any. The religious boomers are on their way out, and nobody with half a brain or under the age of 40 supports Israel here in the West. They did this to themselves by slaughtering thousands of children utterly pointlessly. I mean what do you expect?

Lastly, religion is a monstrous evil. If you’re religious, please stop. Please.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

A person makes a decision. If that decision is almost certainly going to result in the deaths of children, it is the wrong decision. You will never face a simpler moral scenario than this.

It sounds like you're suggesting that Israel should let Hamas kill Israeli children and civilians uncontested because they are hiding behind their own. Long-Term/big picture, I fail to see how that improves anyone's safety besides Hamas.

People can argue about justifications in good faith, of course… although ironically in this case, we can’t even do that, since we both know that bombing Gaza to the tune of 90% civilian casualties does nothing to ameliorate the conflict and everything to exacerbate it.

As far as I know, the only casualty figures we have so far are from Hamas, and recent analysis seems to indicate that they are not credible.
According to figures I've seen,
Israel's civilian casualty rate is significantly lower than 90%. 90% is the average for civilian casualties in urban combat scenarios involving explosives, according to the UN.

Also, this isn’t a war. Wars are fought between nations, and Israel does not recognize Palestine’s sovereignty. Gaza has no self-determination. There’s no government. It is a prison full of children. An abomination that nobody living in Gaza created, perpetuated from outside.

A nation is different than a country, afaik no one disputes that Palestinians are a nation, but its statehood is hotly contested.

According to Google:

Nation: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory

Hamas is the government of Gaza, they were elected and bafflingly and unfortunately they still experience widespread support from Palestinians. If elections were held again today, Hamas would win.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Now I know you didn’t think this response through. A nation isn’t a country? Tut tut.

Read that opening paragraph you quoted. It says nothing about Israel. It is an abstract moral rule. You ask yourself, “am I making a decision that will result in the deaths of more children?” If the answer is yes, you are making the wrong decision.

But let’s not pretend you read books.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

A nation isn’t a country? Tut tut.

It literally isn't.

A nation is a group of people with a common language, history, culture, and (usually) geographic territory. A state is an association of people characterized by formal institutions of government, including laws; permanent territorial boundaries; and sovereignty (political independence). A state may comprise one or more nations (as did the Roman Empire and Austria-Hungary), and a nation may be represented in (or ruled by) one or more (usually contiguous) states, as in the early modern principalities of Germany. A state comprising or dominated by a single nation is often called a nation-state.

I read citations, if you cared to provide any.

am I making a decision that will result in the deaths of more children

I submit binding Israel's hands and keeping Hamas in power does exactly this, is makes countless future generations of children unsafe and under the control of a terrorist government who uses them as shields.