this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
1 points (100.0% liked)

Aussie Enviro

905 readers
1 users here now

An Australian community for everything from your backyard to beyond the black stump.

🐒
Topics may include Aussie plants and animals, environmental, farming, energy, and climate news and stories (mostly Aus specific), etc.

🐧 Want a news or information source? Try one of these links below!

News

The Conversation
(Envt)

The Guardian
(Envt)

ABC News
(Envt)

ABC News
(Sci)

ABC News
(Rrl)

Independent Australia
(Envt)

Michael West Media

The Fifth Estate

The New Daily
(Life, Sci, Envt)

SBS News
(Envt)

The Saturday Paper
(Envt)

New Matilda
(Envt)

John Menadue
(Envt)

John Menadue
(Pub Pcy/Climate)

In Queensland News

InDaily
(Sci and Tech)

The AIMN
(Envt)

Westender (Envt and Climate)

Crikey
(Envt)

The Shot

4zzz

Sunshine Coast News

NoFibs

Sydney Morning Herald
(Envt)

The Age
(Envt)

Eureka Street
(Aus)

Open Forum

National Indigenous Times
(Envt)

The Independents

Science

Phys.org
(Aus)

Phys.org
(Aus and Envt)

Phys.org
(Plants and Animals)

Science.org
(News)

Particle.Scitech
(Earth)

Nature

CSIRO
(News)

AIMS
(Stories)

Botany.One

Science Daily (Envt)

Online Library.Wiley
(Srch Earliest)

Online Library.Wiley

The BOM
(Media Releases)

Australia Institute
(News)

Science in Public

Conservation

Nature Australia
(Newsroom)

Wilderness

Australian Conservation Foundation ACF

Biodiversity Council
(Stories)

Conservatioon Council of WA

Marine Conservation

Greening Australia

WWF, World-Wide Fund for Nature

WWF, World-Wide Fund for Nature
(Blogs)

Australian Wildlife

Nature Conservation Council for NSW

Bob Brown

Bush Heritage

Threatened Species Index

Queensland Conservation Council
(Blog)

Greenpeace

Minderoo Foundation
(Media)

Tangaroa Blue
(Features)

Environmental Defenders Office

North East Forrest Alliance

Aussie Bird Count

Education Institutions

Australia National University
(News)

Science @ ANU
(News/Evts)

University of Queensland
(News)

University of the Sunshine Coast
(News)

University of Technology, Sydney
(News)

University NSW
(News)

Queensland University of Technology
(News)

Griffith
(News)

University of Southern Queensland
(News)

University of Melbourne
(News)

Monash
(Lens)

Southern Cross
(Sci)

RMIT
(News)

Macquarie
(Lighthouse)

James Cook
(This is Uni)

Charles Darwin
(News)

University of Adelaide
(Envt News)

Deakin
(News and Media)

University of Newcastle
(News)

University of New England
(Connect)

University of Western Australia
(News)

Flinders
(News)

Murdoch
(News)

University of Western Sydney
(News Centre)

Curtin
(News)

Edith Cowan
(News)

Charles Sturt
(News)

University of Tasmania
(News and Stories)

University of South Australia
(News)

Misc

Farmers for Climate Action

Carbon Brief

TERN Ecosystem Research

Climate Council

EcoVoice

Takvera (J,Englart)
(Climate Citizen Blog)

Enviro Justice

Climate and Health Alliance

Australian Youth Climate Coalition

Jagun Alliance

Mongabay (Aus)

Australian Geographic

Greenleft

Carbon Pulse (Biodiversity)

Treehugger

EcoWatch (Aus)

Resilience

Regenfarming News

Modern Farmer

Renew Economy

Ecogeneration

InnovationAus

🐫

Trigger Warning: Community contains mostly bad environmental news (not by choice!). Community may also feature stories about animal agriculture and/or meat. Until tagging is available, please be aware and click accordingly.

πŸͺ²

Aussie Zone Rules.

  • Golden rule - be nice. If you wouldn’t say it in front of your ~~grandmother~~ favourite tree, don’t post it.
  • No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. You are allowed to denigrate invasive plants or animals.
  • Be respectful. Everyone should feel welcome here. Except invasive plants or animals.
  • No porn. Except photos of plants. Definitely not animals.
  • No Ads / Spamming. Except for photos or stories about plants and animals.
  • Nothing illegal in Australia. Like invasive plants or animals. Exotic microbes and invasive fungi also not welcome.
  • Make post titles descriptive with no swear words. Comments are a free for all using the above rules as a guide. Fuck invasive plants and animals.

🐝

/c/Aussie Environment acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the land, sea and waters, of the area that we live and work on across Australia. We acknowledge their continuing connection to their culture and pay our respects to their Elders past and present.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Definitely a good move forward imo, but I do wonder about the fire risk. With all the garbage truck fires that have been popping up in the last few years (usually caused by batteries being thrown into curbside rubbish), would a fire in the back of an EV fire truck be better, worse, or about the same as a fire in a normal diesel rubbish truck?

Also, since EVs in general are so quiet, I'm also a little worried that they'd be a fair bit more dangerous. Not hearing a Tesla or similar EV is bad, but a 20 ton machine packed with however many tons of rubbish they hold would be considerably worse. I suppose they don't generally reverse, and they're a lot bigger so definitely easier to spot, but with really any conventional truck, they're easy to see and hear, you know when they're there even if you can't see them. With an EV truck, not so much.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

An EV fire that isn't caused by the drive battery usually doesn't affect it. The drive battery is a very dense insulated block near the bottom of the vehicle, so it takes a surprising amount of external heat to get it to burn.

Attaching a noisemaker to a vehicle is a simple fix and they'd do that if the trucks actually turned out to be silent.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

I vote the noise maker be Jimmy Carr's laugh on repeat, "ha, ha, ha, harrrr!!"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (6 children)

The brakes assuning they're pneumatic still would still make a lot of noise, I was thinking it's great because you won't hear the truck coming for 45 minutes before it gets to you.

The battery pack wouldn't be amongst the crushing section of the truck so the fires wouldn't be much worse then the 900 litres of diesel and 150 litres of hydraulic oil that could go up in a regular rubbish truck.

My only concern as with all things electric for a solution is are we just pushing the environmental impact up the road. Will all these batteries become a hazard, will the increased requirements to charge all these vehicles increase power plant emissions worsening the effects of coal over regular vehicle emissions?

Especially when we look at modern diesel engines with a DEF system pushing out mostly water and nitrogen out the exhaust with very little NOx

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

The brakes assuning they’re pneumatic still would still make a lot of noise

They would surely be regenerative

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

I hear the garbage truck brakes way before I hear the engine.

Electric vehicles do put less load on the brakes thanks to regenerative charging. I bet the trucks will still be plenty loud in other ways as well. The lifting and compaction mechanisms alone can be heard a ways away.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

will the increased requirements to charge all these vehicles increase power plant emissions worsening the effects of coal over regular vehicle emissions?

No, that's never going to happen. A huge coal power plant is always going to operate at a higher efficiency than a little engine inside a car or truck. It's the efficiency of scale. And that's the starting point! Our grid is already nearing 50% renewable in some places and it's rising.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

The advantage of EVs is they'll get cleaner over time. If you bought one of those Nissan Leafs in 2012, you would have charged it using quite a lot of coal generated electricity. That same car today would use probably half coal and half solar. As coal continues to exit the grid and we build out more solar, emissions from EVs already on the road will keep dropping.

If you buy a diesel today, it's still going to be burning diesel in 2040.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

@Aussiemandeus @Baku as a country that struggled to recycle glass how are we going to recycle batteries that are infinitely more toxic.

There is this push for all Aussie car owners to have electric, but we have no commitments to improve electrical infrastructure, why is it the individuals responsibility to make changes, where is the push for better public transport.

We model our society and cities after the US, with sprawling suburbs and car centric neighbourhoods, why not make it easier to choose a bus over car a train over gridlock traffic. Focus on a better society, better urban planning and people will make better choices around cars.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

LFP batteries are taking over from the older NMC chemistry, and LFP doesn't have those expensive toxic materials in them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That's what I mean about kicking the can down the road.

We're jumping to electric vehicles so fast with very few logistical solutions.

May as well go to nuclear and deal with that waste. Save the steps and in 50 years we will find. A solution for it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

May as well go to nuclear and deal with that waste. Save the steps and in 50 years we will find. A solution for it

Too slow to build, too expensive, and too mired in politics and legal issues. So the only result will be that coal and gas stick around for even longer. Which is precisely why conservative parties are pushing nuclear.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

To slow to hard was the issue 20 years ago.

The tree planted 20 years ago is better than the tree planted today but in 20 years time today's tree is there

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

The previous LNP government could not build car parks.

There is zero chance there will be nuclear power plants in Australia in the next 20 years.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

The battery pack wouldn't be amongst the crushing section of the truck so the fires wouldn't be much worse then the 900 litres of diesel and 150 litres of hydraulic oil that could go up in a regular rubbish truck.

The fire could actually be very much worse. A fuel/oil fire is Class B, which can be extinguished with CO2 or with foaming agents. You can add foam to a regular fire hose and lay down a layer of it to smother the fire. A battery is a Class D (metal) fire, which can't be extinguished with anything common.

Metal fires are some scary shit to be around. It's risky for firefighters to even use a fire hose to cool a burning electric vehicle because lithium releases hydrogen gas and heat on contact with water. Usually you have to just wait for a metal fire to burn itself out.

As long as the battery's undamaged it's not an issue, but a burning garbage truck?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

Yeah that was what I was thinking.

but a burning garbage truck?

Yeah, there's been a few cases of the compactors in rubbish trucks causing fires after crushing things that people shouldn't be putting in their landfill bin, ie car batteries, old phones, etc). As soon as the fire is noticed, the trucks generally dump their load onto the road, nature strip, really whatever is available. Obviously the trucks batteries wouldn't be crushed by the compactor, but my concern is mostly whether an EV truck would cause a nastier fire/explosions than a diesel one in the event of a fire somehow going unnoticed, or hell, even if someone broke into a truck depot and torched one (crazier things have happened...)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

I'm not saying they're less worse, but the batteries are better protected from fire then diesel and fuel.

I'm speaking as a professional heavy vehicle and machinery mechanic. It's nothing to install fire suppression systems if it is such a big worry.