this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
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Antiwork

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  1. We're trying to improving working conditions and pay.

  2. We're trying to reduce the numbers of hours a person has to work.

  3. We talk about the end of paid work being mandatory for survival.

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I sure as hell don't. (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The logical conclusion of

you should have to work (to make money, transactionally, anything not valued by capitalism and rich people doesn't even count, if you don't or can't fit this model it doesnt count) to make a living

is that

if you don't work (with the previous very large caveats for what counts as 'work'), you deserve to suffer and die

A lot of people don't think about the implications of that statement when they make it, but that is the logical end point. My experience is that most people - at least if they aren't stressed from the existing model - absolutely want to do things, often sharing them for free, without coercion.

But even if not, do you think people should be miserable and die if they can't or even won't "work for a living" (for a very particular narrow definition of work that can gain you money under the current system, when stuff created and donated is often more valuable than things payed for due to lack of perverse incentives - e.g. FOSS ^.^).

I'm not even starting on how the current model of labour provides perverse anti-automation incentives. Automation should be liberating, but the way our society values people based on labour (e.g. Protestant Work Ethic) actively forces people (and the non-capitalist class as a whole) to avoid tools or processes that should improve our collective lives :/ - imo this is one of the most fucked up things about capitalism.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Pure capitalism without rules is bad, sure.

Capitalism is also THE most successful system in our history. Without capitalism you'd be dead. Me too. Without capitalism the would wouldn't be able to sustain more than a few hundred million people. Do not underestimate all the processes we have in place that make it that you have your Hamburger.on your place to eat and survive. Hospitals would cease to function without it.

So let's call capitalism a necessary evil of you like. I know there are loads of communist types around here that live in the fantasy world where communism can do this and we'll, it can't. If you want, just even look at the history of Communism over the entire world. Every single communist government has failed and has caused only pain and suffering on the practical level.

I fully agree with you that you don't just want to ket people die so that is the solution?

I'd say a limited capitalist system where we place hard limits on what companies can do, hard limits on sizes and incomes and what people can own through -for example- taxes. The more you earn, the more you pay until taxes reach 100%

With that huge income you finance a socialist state where all the basics are free. Free healthcare , free education, etc. Food and housing is paid with Universal income so that everyone can at least afford a basic nice level of living. Anyone who wants extra can work extra in the capitalist system and earn extra if they want, but not need.

That just my 2 cents, but you'll still need capitalism. Take that away and you'll destroy the world and kill millions.