this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2024
207 points (97.3% liked)

World News

38979 readers
2540 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

Hint: communism doesn't work in practice on scales the size of nations. The ideology is too fragile and susceptible to corruption and outside influence and you end up with shit like this.

Before anyone says "it's not real communism" that is the point. It's useless if it's too weak against other ideologies to be properly implemented.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

Socialism works. Workers can democratically direct production at scale. Communism is the goal, but Socialism isn't some sacrifice to get through, it's a marked improvement on Capitalism. Capitalism itself is the sacrifice.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The same argument can be applied for free market capitalism: it's too fragile and susceptible to corruption and outside influence. The reality is that the big economies of the world lie somewhere in the middle.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Correct assessment. Absolutism in political systems is unproductive and leads to poor outcomes.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's because communism was never supposed to be a thing you just implement and was never meant to exist alongside other ideologies.

Communism as first described by Marx and then later expanded upon by other theorists is merely the inevitable outcome of a global society that has overcome scarcity, moved away from late stage capitalism and values things like workers rights, equality and standards of living.

The biggest divide between communists is usually how we get to that end state. Do you try to ignite a global violent revolution against capitalism, seize the means of production by force and then use dictatorial power to try and force society towards it, like the Soviets did? Or should we make incremental changes over time though existing Democratic channels like democratic socialists? Or do you seize the power for yourself, run the country like a monarchy and claim you've achieved communism?

[–] [email protected] -4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I am familiar with marxist theory. The problems lie in what you just said. As Marx said, it is the natural progression of a society that has progressed through the stages of capitalism and entered post-scarcity. People who advocate for other channels of achieving communism are misguided, as post scarcity is a pretty hard requirement and a lack of that aspect opens the mechanisms of resource allocation up to exploitation. And unless you can somehow stop shitheads from being born, someone is going to be enough of one to take advantage.

Even the OG natural progression of society version of communism has issues. For one, you still have the shithead human problem. There's always going to be people out there who want it all, and they'll exploit whatever they can to get it. Communism, being stateless, doesn't have particularly good mechanisms for dealing with that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

The entire point of socialism with Chinese characteristics was studying how to achieve post scarcity in a capitalist global economy without losing the leverage necessary for the government to eventually progress towards communism. It's not like this is a unique train of thought.

Marx wrote assuming that revolution would happen in the advanced economies of Germany, France, England, and America. Instead, revolution happened in the agriculturally-dependent economies of Russia, China, and Vietnam.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

But even if communism was an ideology and an unreachable standard that a community or country was striving to active, you would expect it to be harder to even become a millionaire

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Communism is an definitely an ideology. Literally first sentence from Wikipedia: "Communism [...] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology..."

But yeah, it's kinda suspicious that every nation scale attempt at communism has ended in failure or a system that is decidedly not communist, whether through internal strife or external influence.