this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
106 points (87.3% liked)

World News

38944 readers
1779 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 37 points 6 months ago (2 children)

You mean Israel went into negotiations making unreasonable demands? Like almost every other time?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Oh come on. What kind of "return elderly people, pregnant women and other feeble hostages" is unreasonable demand? What would be reasonable demand? Keep them forever. Abuse them?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Why do you think those people would have survived six months of sustained bombing?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If they cared about negotiations, they would have kept them save. Which apparently they don't. Now they don't have any leverage.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Kept them safe how? Do they have force fields?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They kept themselves safe. There are bunch of tunnels or they could say here's a hostage here don't bomb this place.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If Hamas is able to keep themselves save from six months of Israeli bombing, maybe Israel shouldn't have spent six months bombing Gaza and killing over 10,000 children.

So based on your own claims, Israel is far better at killing innocent people than Hamas could even hope to be.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Maybe they shouldn't have kidnapped and killed people in the first place if they didn't want retribution.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They are not getting the retribution based on your own claim.

Unless you think those 13,000+ children are all in Hamas.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Am never going to try to justify civilian deaths, because there's no justification. But the fact is if you kick hornets nest you'll get stung. You can't expect any country on this planet to ignore such an attack because if they do, they risk allowing such attack to repeat.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You say there's no justification and then you justify it in the next sentence by implying that it's Hamas' fault that all of those innocent children died.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Am not justifying am pointing out it's an expected outcome. I never said it was warranted or said it was okay.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago

Why should over 13,000 dead Palestinian children be the "expected outcome" of far fewer dead Israelis and far, far fewer hostages? Because that still sounds like a justification.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

What are the demands of each side? Can we lay them out and compare? Or do we know already that Hamas demands are reasonable? Do we always have to take sides? I personally want what's best for the Palestinian people so I want a ceasefire and return to negotiations. But this partisan flailing isn't helping the cause. Unless of course we're ok sacrificing more Palestinians? I don't get it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

We can. Hamas has been very clear. End the blockade. Remove troops from West Bank. Recognize a Palestinian state. Allow Palestinian refugees to return. Release Palestinians being held without charge. (hostages but with a nicer veneer)

Israel wants their people back.

Those are the two positions.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

So from the "River to the sea" has been taken out of Hamas charter? What does their charter state as their key objective now?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

The 1969 borders. They still vote to resist Israel but they did actually change the charter in 2018.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Do sides have to be taken in a negotiation?

I would say yes. That's the whole point of a negotiation.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Should we grant:

  • A. Both sides be reasonable?
  • B. Only Israel should be reasonable?
  • C. Only Hamas should be reasonable?
  • D. None of the above.

I just don't understand why you're calling out only one party?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Because one party is demanding something the other party says it doesn't have.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

THEY SHOULD HAVE, but they said they don't. Some 130 people are still missing. That means they killed hostages. Plain and simple. The request was to return first 40 hostages which should include all the women, elderly and others in a need of care, then fill whatever is left up to 40 with men. Then negotiations can start.

So, there are no hostages anymore. They either raped them to death or tortured them to death. And now Israel's retribution will get even worse.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Or Israel killed them. Why isn't that a possibility? Did a force field go up around them while Israel bombed all the places they claimed were Hamas locations?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That's bullshit excuse. If I hold you in front of oncoming bullets, I killed you, not whoever shot the bullets. If you jump in front of a car you killed yourself. Driver didn't kill you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Except Hamas didn't hold them in front of bullets, Israel intentionally targeted places they were likely to be held because they were going after Hamas with no regard for casualties.

Let's not forget they shot their own people who had escaped and were waiving a white flag while trying to get back to Israeli forces. Claiming Israel has killed their own people being held hostage isn't bullshit, it's literally a matter of record. And that's not even the only instance you can find being reported, there's a report from March 1st saying another 7 hostages were killed.

If you jump in front of a car you killed yourself. Driver didn't kill you.

What if the driver ran up on the curb to hit the guy next to you? That's absolutely the drivers fault.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Maybe...don't take hostages to begin with???

I got my bingo card. What's the right response?

  • Israeli occupation ergo hostages are justified.
  • Casualties of war.
  • Israel does the same.
[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not justifying hamas' actions in the slightest. But let's not pretend that Israel isn't at fault for murdering the hostages we know about, or have decades long evidence of lack of care for Palestinian life. Those points alone are enough to destroy any notion that your above assertion is the most likely:

They either raped them to death or tortured them to death. And now Israel's retribution will get even worse.

Funny how zionists only ever talk about the possibility of Hamas intentionally killing the hostages, and never a peep about the hostages that Israel murdered in their negligent attacks on hamas.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

That's a Bingo!

Israel does the same

Btw, that quote is not from me. You might have intended to respond to someone else.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Problem I think is why they don't have them now if they had them at some point.

Unless they never had them to begin with; having people and now no longer having them points to killing them which, surprise, hurts negotiation.

Who knows though, Israel might of taken them for innocent Palestinians and did it to themselves :(

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Unless it wasn't Hamas who killed them.

The IDF didn't put a magical force field around the hostages as they bombed the shit out of Gaza.

The IDF has already admitted to "mistakenly" killing hostages that had been released- https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/16/israeli-hostages-mistakenly-killed-in-gaza-were-had-a-white-flag-official

And those were the ones they were caught killing or even were aware themselves that were killed. How many more were killed?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Yeah, I'm not ruling out Israel unknowingly killing their own (or even knowingly I guess) but I think regardless if an explanation (that's true) by either was possible, it'd be better.