this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2024
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Hello World,

following feedback we have received in the last few days, both from users and moderators, we are making some changes to clarify our ToS.

Before we get to the changes, we want to remind everyone that we are not a (US) free speech instance. We are not located in US, which means different laws apply. As written in our ToS, we're primarily subject to Dutch, Finnish and German laws. Additionally, it is our discretion to further limit discussion that we don't consider tolerable. There are plenty other websites out there hosted in US and promoting free speech on their platform. You should be aware that even free speech in US does not cover true threats of violence.

Having said that, we have seen a lot of comments removed referring to our ToS, which were not explicitly intended to be covered by our ToS. After discussion with some of our moderators we have determined there to be both an issue with the ambiguity of our ToS to some extent, but also lack of clarity on what we expect from our moderators.

We want to clarify that, when moderators believe certain parts of our ToS do not appropriately cover a specific situation, they are welcome to bring these issues up with our admin team for review, escalating the issue without taking action themselves when in doubt. We also allow for moderator discretion in a lot of cases, as we generally don't review each individual report or moderator action unless they're specifically brought to admin attention. This also means that content that may be permitted by ToS can at the same time be violating community rules and therefore result in moderator action. We have added a new section to our ToS to clarify what we expect from moderators.

We are generally aiming to avoid content organizing, glorifying or suggesting to harm people or animals, but we are limiting the scope of our ToS to build the minimum framework inside which we all can have discussions, leaving a broader area for moderators to decide what is and isn't allowed in the communities they oversee. We trust the moderators judgement and in cases where we see a gross disagreement between moderatos and admins' criteria we can have a conversation and reach an agreement, as in many cases the decision is case-specific and context matters.

We have previously asked moderators to remove content relating to jury nullification when this was suggested in context of murder or other violent crimes. Following a discussion in our team we want to clarify that we are no longer requesting moderators to remove content relating to jury nullification in the context of violent crimes when the crime in question already happened. We will still consider suggestions of jury nullification for crimes that have not (yet) happened as advocation for violence, which is violating our terms of service.

As always, if you stumble across content that appears to be violating our site or community rules, please use Lemmys report functionality. Especially when threads are very active, moderators will not be able to go through every single comment for review. Reporting content and providing accurate reasons for reports will help moderators deal with problematic content in a reasonable amount of time.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

Personally my big takeaway from the comments here is that either many people think administrating a large internet platform is a joke and happens on its own and you don't find 10+ legal notices in the PO box every week, or that - and I've read about this before - reading comprehension in the english-speaking world has fallen dramatically in recent years and people are genuinely unable to read paragraphs of text of non-trivial content and/or shifting subjects within same sentences, something you learn around 6th grade in school but sadly rarely need after school in modern times.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

Everything was fine until the "Jury nullification" thing? Apparently that's an American thing where a state can disregard a federal law if they find it to be unconstitutional.
What does that have to do with Lemmy moderation?
I'm sorry if this is very obvious, but I'm not American, and just learned the meaning of the term from Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_(U.S._Constitution)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

It's not really even that. It's when jurors believe the law should not apply in that specific instance for some reason.

For example, you might be opposed to the laws against drug possession in small amounts. You could vote "not guilty" if you were on a jury where someone was on trial for violating that law, even if it's 100% clear the defendant did, in fact, break the law. That would be nullification.

I think I see where the admins are coming from in the sense of using nullification as a way to get off from a crime in planning (but, let's face it, the odds that are EXTREMELY slim), but they already covered planning crimes as being against the policy. Why bother calling out the nullification part?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (8 children)

I’m gonna have to switch instances because of all the terrible shit the US does, free speech is the one thing we truly get right.

And I just want to let you know what free speech is when it comes to violence:

• yelling fire in a crowded theatre when there is none: not protected

• celebrating the death of a CEO who deserved it: protected (the deserved it is irrelevant to speech, but fuck that guy)

• saying you wish other unnamed CEOs will be killed next: protected unless there’s evidence of planning and ability to carry out murdering a specific CEO

• saying you wish a specific famous person be killed, such as Elon musk: grey area, depends on if there’s evidence of planning and ability to carry out. Public figures are a higher bar to reach than the lay people.

• saying you wish to kill your neighbor John who’s not famous: not protected regardless of planning or ability, it’s assault

• saying you want to kill any person and having evidence of planning and a method to do so: not protected

• saying you wish for a whole group to die: protected if there’s no evidence of planning and ability to carry it out. One could theoretically march around with signs that say death to fags and that’s totally legal. Example: Westboro Baptist Church picketing funerals with signs such as that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

See, and this is why other countries have different laws, because the last part in particular is not protected in most countries.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

It’s not why they have other laws.* We just have vastly different cultural beliefs of what’s important to us. We have positive and negative freedom - for example, we are free to practice whatever religion we want no matter how ridiculous (flying spaghetti monster anyone?) and we are free from religion, as in the state can’t establish it.

I bring up religion because it’s in the same amendment as free speech, but more importantly from a historical sense, for what it’s worth Europe had centuries of brutal warfare between Catholics and Protestants (which as a non Christian is just crazy to me, y’all believe in almost the same things in general) and our founding puritans were getting persecuted in England for their beliefs. So freedom of thought was the most important thing they sought leaving England to come here, and it’s why it’s our first amendment in our bill of rights.

*germany with its Holocaust history is an exception. If I went marching around with a sign that says death to Jews I’d be thrown in prison for some time.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

This shit is exhausting and incoherent to read. Also, jury nullification is in no way, shape or form ‘advocating for violence’.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

Is this TOS number 15 ? Or 24?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I know people want to celebrate the perish of a bad guy (me included) but if that endangers existance of lemmy.world then I think it's fair to take this celebration somewhere else.

On the ehtics pov I'm not quite conviced that celebrating death is entirely unethical. Some people are bad and society is better without them and these Dutch, Finnish and German laws might make sense locally but definitely don't make much sense in a global context.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah it also makes sense logically because the law as written assumes death to be inherently negative (see also assisted-suicide issues in many countries). But of course it makes sense for the law to assume this, as otherwise people would find loopholes.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

It doesn't matter whether the laws make sense or not, they are the context the instance has to operate. Unfortunately many counties in Europe do not have robust freedom of speech provisions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

You mean fortunately, considering what a joke they are in the US? 😂

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

"Freedom of Speech" as glorified in the US means hate speech, racism, and discrimination. Be happy that your don't have us style free speech. I am as a Canadian.

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