Rules TBD.
Look, can't we agree that neither country gives a shit about the working class? Nation states are so 20th century. Why not try something new and try dissolving the state and self organizing into communes that best reflect our beliefs and values?
That said... What do the different shades of colors mean in the top image? Only half fucked over?
No we can't because that's demonstrably false. The state in China clearly represents the interests of the majority.
90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes
The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf
From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4
From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&locations=CN&start=2008
By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html
People in China also enjoy high social mobility https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-social-mobility.html
And finally, they have record household savings https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jones-bank-earnings-01-12-2024/card/chinese-household-savings-hit-another-record-high-xqyky00IsIe357rtJb4j
Why not try something new and try dissolving the state and self organizing into communes that best reflect our beliefs and values?
The real question is why don't anarchists have nothing to show aside from rhetoric for over a century. I'll take a functional worker state that actually improves lives of the people instead of living under dictatorship of capital while dreaming about unachievable utopia.
This is too close to dishonest to be persuasive.
The word "occupied" is doing the heavy lifting, but saying "invaded & occupied" implies that they've done as little invading as occupying, which is not true.
The USSR isn't included, so the implication that socialism means 0 occupations is also untrue.
All states that identify as socialist have done fewer invasions than the US, as a combination of having existed for less time, having had less power during that time and -yes - having a slightly lower inclination to invade.
All powerful states abuse their power to unacceptable (if differing) degrees. That's the nature of hierarchical power. All nation states are vermin.
China doesn't occupy every nook and cranny of the oceans and waterways on the planet. Whoever made this chart is a fuckin moron. Humans cannot realistically engage in long term oceanic invasion and occupation.
Stark comparison but China regularly has skirmishes with India on India's side of the border.
There was also the time they invaded Vietnam.
and with the USSR
During the first and second Afghan civil-war there were also border skirmishes
skill issue
Not invading other countries is a choice, not a skill.
Big time, despite all the colonization the burger empire still can't keep up with China. Hence all the crying about over production.
No, I meant China's lack of colonies is a skill issue. They've tried often enough, but usually got BTFO by a small set of islands in front of their coast, or a few hundred Europeans.
Nah, China hasn't tied making colonies. It has developed using its own means, and now it has surpassed the US.
They’ve tried often enough
[Citations needed]
the uk got invaded?
More like became a vassal of the empire after WW2 along with the rest of Europe.
Yog, where is P̶a̶d̶m̶e̶ Tibet?
Is it safe? Is it alright?
Tibet was liberated in 1951 thank goodness
I dislike the meme for other inaccuracies, but Tibet had voluntarily re-joined China a decade prior, so calling that an "invasion and occupation" would be like saying the same of the US with the Confederacy
Liberating the people of Tibet from a feudal theocracy, from poverty and illiteracy. The horror they must be suffering.
I don’t think many Tibetans would welcome a CIA-backed Dalai “suck my tongue” Lama coup government.
what's more lib than cheering for slavery https://www.historicly.net/p/tibet-china-and-the-violent-reaction
Yeah, apart from other areas of china (if you can call those "invasions and occupations") there's only been one time they've invaded another country and that was Vietnam in 1979.
Unrelated to China, but why is the Vietnam War listed as Indecisive or unclear outcome?
List of wars being involved in is not a list of countries being invaded and occupied, nice try though.
honestly the map is too unserious to merit discussion
Except that it's not. China's development has been overwhelmingly peaceful, and China has played a positive role around the globe helping many other nations develop and improve their standard of living. On the other hand, the US has been at war throughout all of its miserable existence, and is responsible for carrying out countless crimes against humanity around the globe. It remains the greatest threat to human existence today.
See? You could have said that instead of posting falsified maps
the map is far more accurate than it is not though
Eh, I think you can illustrate your point a bit better, comrade. The map goes from good agitprop to bad when it is counterable by liberals and leftists alike. I agree with your general point on this post, so I don't think it's bad, but it could be better. Just my opinion.
That's fair, I like the concept of the map hence why I shared it, but I agree it would be better if it was more accurate. Perhaps worth making a better one.
I think that's a good idea! Reality speaks for itself, showing reality is the best agitprop.
I agree, and it is true that whenever agitprop has even minor inaccuracies then that's the only thing people will fixate on.
The top one is taken from a website called vividmaps where it's countries the USA has had some sort of conflict with
List of wars being involved in is not a list of countries being invaded and occupied, nice try though.
The bottom map is just a white map.
Garbage meme 1/5
Yep, it's pretty bad for agitprop, even if I agree that the PRC has had really peaceful development all things considered, and the US is a genocidal empire, this map gets in the way of that messaging.
the map is far more accurate than it is not though
Come on, Yog, we can hold ourselves to a higher standard than this. It'd be so easy to just color in Vietnam and then you'd be set, but by posting it in its current form you are actively lying.
I think there's a difference between invasion/occupation and a minor border skirmish. Like yeah it could've been more accurate, but it does get the point across. 🤷
One 😂😂😂 bit is the way it even uses a purer shade of white for China.
played a positive role around the globe helping many other nations develop and improve their standard of living
african debt traps intensify
Put the Kool-Aid down. Stop uncritically accepting propaganda from neocolonial states and their corporate media.
I love how you trolls just keep regurgitating the same few tropes that even mainstream western media has debunked
Immediately thought of Vietnam and Cambodia. OP really doesn't know much history...
And OP's comparison pic is nonsense for more reasons than that. The time ranges are wildly different, it's counting starting from 1776 for the US, but it starts counting from 1949 for the PRC
China is occupying Vietnam and Cambodia?
Image says "Has invaded since PRC was founded", not "is occupying right now", don't try to change the terms of the debate when contradicted. You still could've made a point that China invaded much fewer countries than the US, but at least try to have an accurate map or the accurate words.
Portraying minor skirmishes as invasions is the height of dishonesty. Ironic that you would do that while accusing me of being inaccurate.