this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2024
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Linux

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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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Obviously, a bit of clickbait. Sorry.

I just got to work and plugged my surface pro into my external monitor. It didn't switch inputs immediately, and I thought "Linux would have done that". But would it?

I find myself far more patient using Linux and De-googled Android than I do with windows or anything else. After all, Linux is mine. I care for it. Grow it like a garden.

And that's a good thing; I get less frustrated with my tech, and I have something that is important to me outside its technical utility. Unlike windows, which I'm perpetually pissed at. (Very often with good reason)

But that aside, do we give Linux too much benefit of the doubt relative to the "things that just work". Often they do "just work", and well, with a broad feature set by default.

Most of us are willing to forgo that for the privacy and shear customizability of Linux, but do we assume too much of the tech we use and the tech we don't?

Thoughts?

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (2 children)

No, not really. I believe it is because a lot of us linux users have more understanding of our systems, so we know why a certain outcome happened vs "it just works ^tm^".

Also I would like to point out something that I have been telling people for years whenever a post like this comes up. Windows and Mac users do the same thing. They constantly overlook bugs, bad design, artificial limitations, and just the overall lack of care when it comes to various details that more community oriented projects cater to. The reason is because of familiarity. Just like many of us will often not see issues with new comers struggles because we have already worked around all of the issues. These users do the same.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Who is "we", my friend? This all depends on your research and expectations. IMO Linux works great, but you should consider it before you buy a machine. Make sure your graphics card and other hardware is going to work. When in doubt, buy from a reliable shop that preinstalls Linux for you.

I find that the default settings and programs of Debian (or whatever major distro) do 95% of what I expect and want, and maybe 5% involve some customization. In other words, it's much simpler than getting Windows or Apple and then purchasing or downloading all the extra programs. But this depends on what you wanna do.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

For me the main difference is Linux only does something when I ask it to.

Windows does whatever Microsoft wants it to do.

Both have major usability issues. But Linux gets a higher tolerance level, because of higher trust levels.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

My experience is generally it doesn't just work straight away unless it's something I've hammered out myself

I am also using one of the more DIY distros and window managers though, so I wouldn't expect it to without some attention from me to get it hammered out first

That said, once it's hammered out it continues to work exactly the way I want it to, it doesn't spy on me, it doesn't shove ads down my throat every 5 minutes

Would be an interesting experiment to see how non techy windows/mac users would get on if you just put stock mint/pantheon on their systems but I get the feeling it would not be as smooth as if they just had the thing everyone knows all the flaws of already

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

I'm inclined to give Linux more benefit of the doubt than, say, Windows. That's because of the motives behind it.

Microsoft have a very long history of making design choices in their software that users don't like, and quite often that's because it suits their interests more than their customers. They are a commercial business that exists to benefit itself, after all. Same with Apple. Money spoils everything pure, after all. You mention privacy, but that's just one more example of someone wanting to benefit financially from you - it's just in a less transparent and more open-ended way than paying them some cash.

Linux, because that monetary incentive is far less, is usually designed simply "to be better". The developers are often primary users of the software. Sure - sometimes developers make choices that confuses users, but that over-arching driving business interest just isn't there.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I also use Linux & Ungoogled Android on everything--and it is the best we got now that doesn’t involve a significant time sink or expertise to get things working. I would love to see alternative platforms be popular & with general hardware compatibility & either Nix or Guix support as well, I would consider giving it a run in the future since I like being open if something better is on offer. I like to keep light tabs on the Haikus, BSDs, OpenIndianas, & such of the world just in case… particularly if we ever got a memory-safe kernel with some proofs behind its logic (Rust doesn’t go hard enough, sorry fanboys). That said, generally, Linux is still good.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

In general, I think genuinely that Linux requires a more hands on approach. But the best thing is, I solve a problem ONCE. Then I store the script to git and forget about it. The problem is done, it no longer exists.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

I just got to work and plugged my surface pro into my external monitor. It didn't switch inputs immediately, and I thought "Linux would have done that". But would it?

Nope. My laptop for example doesn't automatically use an output when plugged in, but that doesn't bother me because I know other DEs would do that, and it's my choice of having a minimal window manager that causes that.

And this goes into your next point, because I know that this comes from decisions I made, I'm okay with that. I also know I could probably fix it somehow, even if just by running a script in the background that checks if an output is plugged and tries to use it.

And for me that's the big difference. As a general rule when things break or don't work are not the fault of Linux as a general, but of a specific piece of the stack, and more often than not it's because that piece was backwards engineered without any help from the manufacturers of the hardware it's meant to be controlling, so I can be very tolerant of these errors since the bad guys here are the third-party who's refusing to make their things work on Linux. But even things that don't work as I want to, I can make them do so, and that's a huge change in viewpoint.

In other words, on Windows I used to be of the thought of things you can do, and things you can't, with time I noticed that in Linux this thought shifted, to the point that the only question I ever ask myself is: "HOW do I do this?". This implies that there are no impossible things in Linux, which is obviously false, but I would argue that the correct way to think about this is "things that are impossible on Linux, for now", and that's a huge difference, because Linux is always evolving and getting better and better, things you thought are impossible now might be trivial in a few months or years whenever someone with the knowledge to fix it gets bothered with it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Linux is clean and nicer looking than Windows and that is enough for me to switch to Linux

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

This is more just that it's customisable, doesn't look like anything except a terminal until you put a desktop environment on it

(more or less all the options look better than windows but I think the reason for that is they're options and people tend to choose the one they like the look of)

[–] [email protected] 43 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Each time I go back on windows I realize it's worse than I remembered, even though I never liked it. One thing I quickly realized after getting constantly asked for help about issues on windows : people tend to be greatly biased about how reliable it is, mostly because it's all they've known for a long time.

People often talk about compatibility regarding Linux, but are somehow oblivious to all the devices and hardware made for windows that somehow fails miserably to work when it has no good reason to...while Linux, despite most hardware and software not being made with it in mind, can sometimes somehow work wonders.

Windows only «just works» because it's made by a monopolistic monster of a company, with a ton of software and tools and stuff made for it because of how widespread it is, and despite that their OS is just plain garbage..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

Just out of curiosity, aside from the good example posted below by @[email protected], could you provide some examples of "devices and hardware made for windows that somehow fails miserably to work when it has no good reason to"? :)

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The Xbox 360 controller wireless adpater was a pretty big piece of shit 70% of the time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

That is a good example. Thanks.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

Just today, I was using windows on my laptop, playing a game made for windows, Black Ops. And it crashes every time I boot up the Call of the Dead. On linux, while it does stutter on that map depending on where i am, I can still play it surprisingly. Its very strange.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 months ago

When Linux doesn't do what I want, it's never because it was deliberately designed not to do what I want in order to increase shareholder value

[–] [email protected] 65 points 2 months ago (1 children)

When I've thought about this is in the past I've concluded that my expectations of Linux are actually higher than Windows or Mac. It's given me the expectation that if something doesn't work the way I want it then it will be possible to make it do that, whereas with other operating systems I have been more inclined to just accept a limitation and move on.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

E x a c t l y! On Windows/Mac, you're less inclined to be charitable, because most of the time you're facing down artificially-imposed limitations on how you can interact with your own machine. They seem to say "You're too dumb to be allowed to mess with that," which is a tolerable slight if it Just Works every time... But when it doesn't, ohhh boy...

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