this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2024
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301
TIL that his museum says that "Roald Dahl’s racism is undeniable and indelible" (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
167 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

This is the first I've heard of it, but here's one of his infamous quotes:

"There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity, maybe it’s a kind of lack of generosity towards non-Jews.

I mean, there’s always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”

His other quotes tend to be condemnation about specifically Israeli zionism and barbaric murder, but i don't have context as to whether he's referring to palestine or not. Some people might have more sympathy for these statements these days, but a lot of his other quotes have to do with Jews controlling money and media, less defensible prejudice.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

don't have context as to whether he's referring to palestine or not

In 1990, during an interview with The Independent, Dahl explained that his issue with Israel began when they invaded Lebanon in 1982. "they killed 22,000 civilians when they bombed Beirut. It was very much hushed up in the newspapers because they are primarily Jewish-owned. I'm certainly anti-Israeli and I've become antisemitic in as much as that you get a Jewish person in another country like England strongly supporting Zionism. I think they should see both sides. It's the same old thing: we all know about Jews and the rest of it. There aren't any non-Jewish publishers anywhere, they control the media—jolly clever thing to do—that's why the president of the United States has to sell all this stuff to Israel."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Dahl

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

I didn't realize he was referring specifically to Lebanon. Thank you for that context.

I have that quote in another comment somewhere.

That's what I was referencing when I was saying people can probably relate to his anti-israeli stance because of recent events.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

He was a POS, much like Lovecraft and Rowling.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Someone else mentioned this, but didn't follow up with any examples.

I am ready to TIL, how else was Roald Dahl a POS?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The racism maybe?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

The racism definitely; that's the topic of the original post actually, but there are a lot of oblique references to him being a bad person aside from his racism, but nobody has provided any examples yet.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Here is a list of controversial actions and statements attributed to Roald Dahl:

  1. Made numerous anti-Semitic comments, including stating there were reasons for Hitler's actions against Jews[1][4].

  2. Expressed anti-Israel sentiments and admitted to becoming anti-Semitic[4].

  3. Used racial and sexual stereotypes in his writing[3].

  4. Included racist depictions of Oompa-Loompas as African pygmies in early versions of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory[4].

  5. Incorporated themes of child abuse, neglect, racism, sexual innuendo, and fat-shaming in children's books[4].

  6. Used coarse language and drug references in works intended for children[4].

  7. Originally described Matilda as a "devilish little hussy" before editors intervened[4].

  8. Engaged in long-term adultery, having an affair with a friend of his wife[1].

  9. Displayed a mean and unpleasant personality, earning the nickname "Roald the Rotten"[1].

  10. Expressed chauvinistic attitudes, frequently portraying women negatively in his stories[1][3].

  11. Showed a lack of remorse for his controversial statements and views[1][4].

Citations: [1] The dark side of Roald Dahl - BBC https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20160912-the-dark-side-of-roald-dahl [2] The hundreds of changes made to Roald Dahl's books to suit a new ... https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/1154tr5/the_hundreds_of_changes_made_to_roald_dahls_books/ [3] Roald Dahl revision controversy - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Dahl_revision_controversy [4] What's the Deal With… Roald Dahl? - Becandbooks https://becandbooks.com/whats-the-deal-with-roald-dahl/ [5] After family apology, 5 antisemitic Roald Dahl quotes - The Forward https://forward.com/fast-forward/349771/roald-dahls-family-has-apologized-for-his-jew-hatred-what-were-the-5-worst/

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

"There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity, maybe it’s a kind of lack of generosity towards non-Jews.

Taken out of context, this is literally anti-semitism though, not racism. Thereby maybe not the best quote to underline the post title.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Antisemitism is racism lad

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But special racism for white people apparently.

No need for their own name of racism...that's weird.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Does history not exist to you? You really can't understand? Or do you say something so stupid because you think it serves some purpose?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's pretty anti-semitic in context too.

Do you mean you don't find anti-Semitism a form of racism?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Do you mean you don’t find anti-Semitism a form of racism?

To be fair, that's a difficult question because the forms of anti-semitism changed a lot over the course of recent and not-so-recent history.

By definition, semitic people are not just jewish people, and indeed, "semitic" describes an ethnicity, and by that, anti-semitism would also be racism.

However, many contemporary forms of anti-semitism are exclusively directed at jewish people, at which point they typically occur in people who are often also quite racist shitbags, but their anti-semitism in and of itself is not racist, because they direct their hatred at everything that is jewish, and for example the conspiracy theories surrounding jewish influence in the world have nothing to do with ethnicity, and all with religion.

As I learned it, one of the main historical factors contributing to this (and to anti-semitism) is that jewish people were not forbidden by religion from taking interest on money loans (from non-jews), whereas christians were. All the while in medieval times some other jobs were forbidden to them. So naturally there was an overrepresentation of jewish people in the emerging finance sector, and for the simple mind it is convenient to hate on people who you owe money to. And this form of anti-semitism I see as absolutely unrelated to racism.

PS: I intentionally write "jewish" and "christian" in lowercase because all religions suck donkey balls and while they can be tolerated, they deserve no special emphasis.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You're overanalyzing racism.

Racism is prejudice toward an ethnic group.

Angry about money lenders - prejudiced against money lenders - not anti-semitic, not racist

Angry about money lenders - prejudiced against Jewish people - anti-semitic, racist

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And I disagree that these are the only two options you can observe in society. You can very much observe anti-semitism that has nothing to do with perceived ethnicity. Especially because - as much as racists don't like to admit that - the ethnicity of jewish people is very diverse.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Can you elaborate?

Racism isn't about perceived ethnicity specifically, it's about prejudice toward an ethnic group regardless of whether you can perceive the ethnicity accurately.

When someone racist toward Arabs discovers that someone they didn't think was Arab is Arab, then demonstrates prejudice, obviously the perceived ethnicity doesn't matter as much as the prejudice of the idea of being an error.

I don't see the disconnect between anti-Semitism and perceived ethnicity, or how such a theoretical disconnect removes racism from anti-Semitism.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Honestly, I don't think our viewpoints differ enough to waste our time on a discussion. The usefulness of debating nuances is a bit too academic in nature and better done over a beer or so. I like to make a distinction between anti- and racism in order to deface the blatant racism disguised as anti--ism.

E.g. 95% of the European citizens claiming they're "not racist, but" (we call them but-Nazis) they have an issue with islamic traditions, are just stupid racists against brown people but don't have the spine to admit that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I can't imagine how anti-(fill in the ethnicity) cannot be perceived as racism, so I assumed our perspectives on racism were diametrically opposed.

Thank you for "but-Nazis", haha, I haven't heard that term before and I'm definitely going to be propagating it in the wild.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I can’t imagine how anti-(fill in the ethnicity) cannot be perceived as racism

Notice I wrote anti-, and religion is not an ethnicity per se.

Enjoy the "Aber-Nazis" (I'm German, we have too many of those (again?), unfortunately)

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Your desire to protect antisemites is certainly an interesting choice of things to devote energy to but I don't think they'll care about your careful semantics when they're choosing who to hate - you really think they only hate practicing jews? They hate anyone with Jewish ancestry, Roald was talking about a born predisposition not about some aspect of the Jewish religion.

In don't know if you're bending over backwards because to protect a childhood icon of yours or because you've got so wrapped up in the Palestine situation you've been befriending antisemites and telling yourself it's OK but you really are making shitty arguments that have been made by a million racists already

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If you are unable to comprehend basic sentences, that's a you problem, not a me problem.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So are you separating semitism with ethnicity? I think I understand what you're saying then, although especially with the Jewish religion, ethnicity is almost intrinsic.

So I'm talking specifically about Dahl's ethnic racism, and you're just remarking that prejudice or racism does not have to be based on race?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (17 children)

Is your brain hardwired to interchangeably read / see the word "religion" as "ethnicity"? How else could you possibly invent a quote that "racism does not have to be based on race"?

Furthermore, I do not use the word "race" because that's not a thing - what is a thing is "ethnicity" - and in a broader biological sense, "species". We're all the same species, but ethnicities differ and only racists take perceived ethnicity and proceed to use "race" as a talking point.

I make a point to differentiate between the kind of anti-semitism that is directed at "everything jewish" and racism, because it helps dismantle people's talking points, especially to out racists.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

And let's not even get started about the disgusting mix of rightful criticism of the Israeli government with anti-semitism and racism. This topic is so emotionally charged, and gets "overcharged" each time a new sequence of Hamas-Israel mutual war crimes is started (whatever the name), and every time civilians suffer, and people nurture their hate. Mankind is so messed up.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I much prefer this stance to shutting down the museum. They acknowledge the issue in a way that allows people to form opinions and act in a way they are comfortable with.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

Definitely, this was the right move by the museum.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I heard something like this on...Reddit? Maybe. A while ago. They said something akin to while Dahl was racist he didn't let it encroach upon his writting like Lovecraft. I don't really read Lovecraft (haven't since a long, long time ago) but I do have a compillation of Dahl's writings. And I liked them. Didn't feel put off by them, outside of the fact that he can write some gross stuff. I am not sure what else to say on the subject other than it stinks.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I loved his books as a child. As an adult I read them to my kids and I'm strick by a lot of inappropriate language, normal for the time. Racism, fat shaming, child abuse.

Its problematic, and if I was black, I dont know that I'd be comfortable reading descriptions of oompa loompas to my child in a world full of racists. It made me wonder if I should not have read it to munchokd, who would not understand the stereotypes used, nor the allegory to slavery.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yeah he was fun for his time but is painfully out dated now

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I know lovecraft was racist in his personal writings, but I can't recall any specific exams of it inside his fiction.

He wrote so many stories, I would guess it must have somewhere, but I don't remember any and I've read almost all of lovecraft.

I should fill in the gaps with Lovecraft actually and finish the rest of it.

That's great you got a collection of Roald Dahl, I've definitely read all of his books multiple times, they are great.

I don't see evidence of racism inside Dahl's works either, except for like the oompa loompa is coming from Africa, being African pygmies?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I know lovecraft was racist in his personal writings, but I can't recall any specific exams of it inside his fiction.

The glaring example."The Rats in The Walls" had a cat called "removed Man".

And of course admins censor the N word. Jesus Christ this world we live in is fucking scuffed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Ah, thanks, I'll look at that

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

There's quite a few less obvious examples in how he explains black people like animals. He also does the same with Asians. Dude was a man of the times lol

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Mm, I believe it, I am was so into the eldritch descriptions I must have glossed over the racist shit, lovecraft country is what brought it to my attention originally.

And I haven't read his does rice that show aired.

I didn't realize it was based off a book, I want to read that, now

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