this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
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122
China: Two women spark debate after locking girl in plane toilet (www.bbc.com)
submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
41 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

An incident which saw two women lock a crying toddler in an aeroplane toilet has sparked an online debate in China on how to manage children in public spaces.

The incident went viral on the Chinese internet after one of the two women, Gou Tingting, posted a video of herself carrying the girl inside the cubicle.

In her post, she presented herself as trying to help others on board, but was swiftly met with backlash.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

Having spent my childhood in Asia, child abuse is more or less normalised there. The social expectation is that adults are infallible authority figures and children are meant to be obedient at all times (i.e. absolutely quiet).

I also wonder if 20th century social and political turmoil caused many Asian parents to have anger issues and in turn, cause generational trauma. One reason I dislike the idea that Boomers were handed everything to them on a silver platter is because it neglects the fact that much of the world were former colonies. And the post-colonial status of many countries had been very rough-- experiencing inter-ethnic and international wars, proxy wars (Vietnam War and Soviet-Afghan War comes to mind) and corrupt dictatorships that do not invest well in their people causing poverty.

These turmoils and trauma caused many unresolved psychological issues. The victims of these strifes then become parents, who take out their issues to their children. And in turn, these children become parents who believe that hitting their own children constitutes as good parenting, because that was how they were raised.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Last time I flew, I had a screaming baby in front of me, a screaming baby behind me, and a screaming baby next to me. I couldn’t sleep, I couldn’t relax, and my noise-cancelling headphones did very little to help. Know what I didn’t do? Complain, berate the parents, or confine the babies to an unsafe and enclosed space.

Babies cry. There’s usually nothing they or their parents can do about it. That’s life. Flying sucks, and this is just a part of it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Good on you! I've found the best thing to do with upset babies is try to engage with the kid - ask the parents first(!) but babies are fascinated by new people in a way that parents can't fulfill.

Story time: I had a crying 6mth old next to me earlier this year so I pulled out the safety sheet (asked the mum if I can show him this), channeled my inner Wiggles and kick-started it with a big, excited interruption to his crying: "wow, look at the plane!" The unexpected, strange interaction short circuits their focus on being upset and he just stopped and started at me like "wtf is this dude on?". Once I had his attention I started pointing and describing all the pictures, then gave him the page. This turned into a 10min game of point at the picture, say the word or a story then hand it back. My names and descriptions for the people on the page got more crazy each time - after all, his were nonsensical too! I even got a few giggles as I kept it animated with hand gestures and big smiles. That turned into pointing out the windows or different things in the cabin.

The kid eventually got bored of the games after about 15-20 mins but had already forgotten he was upset and then peacefully interacted with his mum again for the rest of the flight. I got back to my book while he had the sky mag to read along like me and would still point out different pictures to me or check my book, puzzled why they were no pictures!

I even scored a tiny-dude high five as they were leaving which everyone knows are the best high fives.

Best flight I've had all year!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

That's some expert baby-handling, very cute!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Yeah, noise cancelling headphones aren't designed for that.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is why I'll probably never travel unless I can take a boat or something. Crying babies aggravate my misophonia to such a severe degree that I will do everything in my power to not be trapped in a small space with even one(no i dont have children.)

So airplanes are a no go. Basically anywhere else I can remove myself. But in a plane you're stuck. I know babies can't help crying, and I can't help my reaction, but I can also choose to not get on a plane. Babies go where their adult takes them.

If I can logically parse out that airplanes aren't a mode of transit I can tolerate maybe others should do the same. Then maybe kids won't get locked in freaking bathrooms over this shit.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

Totally. Having self-awareness is step one. Acting on that self-awareness is step two. Sadly most people don’t even get to step one, so you’re way ahead of the curve.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Not great, but at least she was being considerate of other passengers. Sometimes kids have serious meltdowns, and reasonable solutions aren’t possible.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I would agree with you if she went into the restroom with the child to soothe it rather than just locked it in there.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

That definitely would have been better. Probably more effective, too.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

No, you don’t abuse children to be “considerate of others”.

Sometimes kids have serious meltdowns, you wait for them to end.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

This is interesting.

It's fascinating how different people and different cultures view this stuff.

I'll say this: the grandmother doesn't get enough attention in this article. To start with, I simply don't think it's considerate at all to fly with a one year old. I didn't fly with my kid until he was about two and a half, specifically because one year olds have little to no self control, and the air pressure can be very painful. It's just bad for the kid and other passengers. And then this grandmother gives the kid some random person? Does that person have kids of their own? It's odd that the article doesn't say.

I don't think confining the child to the restroom was effective or healthy. Now I don't think it's child abuse... unless perhaps if you're filming it for TikTok. As soon as the woman is performing for likes, her credibility as a responsible care giver evaporates. I think filming it was probably the dumbest part of the story.

Really, "L"s for everyone all around.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (4 children)

What?!

Flying is not always a choice, sometimes you have to go somewhere. And yeah, sometimes they cry, it sucks. When flying a pair of earplugs should be in your pocket.

Locking a child in a small room is child abuse. And when done by a stranger how is it not holding someone hostage.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Flying is not always a choice

No, but it is the vast majority of the time.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Is it? Leisure is about half of the purposes of flying, business and non leisure make up the rest.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

I'm going to go out on a limb and say people don't often bring babies on their business trips.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You've been forced on a plane against your will?! Flying is 100% a choice (a privilege even to afford it), and it's even more of a choice to bring unruly screaming children/babies that cannot be controlled (not their fault).

Imagine I owned a large Bluetooth speaker that, randomly against my wishes, blasted cacophonous screaming sounds at unpredictable intervals and volumes. I would probably not bring this into a flight because of how embarrassing it would be to disrupt others and ruin their flight. Maybe as the speaker got older in a year or two and could follow instructions and be parented, but not before then.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 months ago

I wasn't forced, nice strawman. But families are spread, or a specific Docter is at a specific place... you don't know the reason. And other modes of transport are not always an option.

So yes, kids can be unruly. Plug your ears. Some airlines even have kid free flights. But the parents have just as much right to be there as you and will do anything to keep their kids quiet.. but sometimes that does not work.

Ps: when my wife flew with our 2 year old she had 30 sets of earplugs with her for other people, just in case. But our kid slept the whole flight.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Flying is not always a choice, sometimes you have to go somewhere.

Not arguing with you, it's just so weird to see someone say that when half my extended family probably haven't seen the inside of a plane in their lives.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

100% of my family besides my wife and dog are far enough away that flying is the only practical way to visit them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I understand, and me too. What I'm saying is just that when I was growing up, this would have been incomprehensible. At the time I was born, people where I grew up were not automatically entitled to travel outside the country, and the country was like 600 km across the longer way.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This wasn't so much entitlement as necessity. My aunts moved to get married. My dad and uncles moved for work. Meeting up was always infrequent because it required flying. My grandpa(dad's side) wasn't able to make it to my dads wedding and my mom did not get to see her dad on his deathbed.

Just how things were back then.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I think I'm misunderstood, by entitlement I don't mean feeling entitled, I mean legal entitlement. She had no right to travel, my family is from a former Warsaw Pact state. The border guard would not let you pass.

We all face our hardships, I'm sorry that your family had to face that as well. It must have been heartwrenching.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I hear you. Many people are perfectly content in their own little bubble, and that's fine. I found travelling far away the few times I did vert impressive. Especially as a dutchy a country like Mongolia is almost incomprehensible... So big and just nature. We travelled a whole day without seeing buildings or people.. we also saw poverty in other countries we where not prepared for... It changed my perspective on things.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Lol, this is what I'm talking about.

No, they didn't stay in their bubble because they were content, my grandma never had a passport, as she couldn't have gotten one before she was like quite old and the wall fell, and she couldn't afford to travel abroad even after that.

All I'm saying is that imagine growing up and instead of having the idea of just taking a flight as a life choice, think about flying as a thing that you might be able to afford one day, when you've "made it".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Flying was made very cheap with tax free fuel and sweetheart deals to airline companies. So because of that the world has gotten smaller and flying is a part of that (in not talking holidays) but for distances over ~800km it is faster and usually competitive in price depending on the group size and if driving is an option.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Wages in my home country tends to be so low that a return plane ticket can be months of pay or more for some. I'm talking living your life in the same horizon poor.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Nice downvotes on your post. Must be really nice people who find it okay to lock a little kid into a small room. One can only hope they never have kids themselves.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

To clarify a bit: I DO think that what this woman did was child abuse. But not specifically because she locked the kid in a bathroom. Because she did it for a social media audience.

For some context, I use what is often called "gentle parenting" (although I think it's just what I would call "parenting if you're humane and responsive to the needs of a child"). So I would never do this. But I also am very aware of the feeling of helplessness that comes from having a child in distress and having exhausted every remedy I know. I am familiar with the logic that a child who is screaming is doing so for attention, and will stop when their behavior isn't being tolerated. Putting a child into a time out until they stop doing something is not a radical approach. If I saw someone do this on a plane, I wouldn't immediately consider it abusing a child.

HOWEVER: if I saw this lady chatting animatedly into her phone's front facing camera while dragging a distressed kid (to whom she's not addressing her attention) toward a lavatory, I'd immediately think, 'Oh fuck: is that one of those people who turns every moment into a social media opportunity? That kid needs rescued.'

I think it's an omission that the article didn't recognize this. This woman didn't just put a kid in a bathroom to try to get them to calm down (dumb idea, but not abuse by itself, imo). She did all that while talking to strangers and saying, 'Hey everyone! Look at me! Look AT MEEE!'

THAT is what makes it abuse.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I don't support it, but man, I get it...

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

I saw a post yesterday berating a woman for wanting to give her toddler melatonin so it would sleep during a flight. Like, why is that a problem? We drug animals for flights all the time, it's practically a requirement. Until the age of at least 5, kids are essentially animals with just as little self-control. Hell, even after that, they tend to have less control than well-trained dogs.

Especially age 2 and younger. A child that young is not going to understand what is happening. Being forced to sit and be quiet for several hours while the pressure fucks with their ears is basically torturing them. Not only do I think it's ok to give them something that would help them sleep through it, I think it should be mandatory.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago

It should be noted that you really can’t overdose on melatonin. After a certain level, it has no more effect and is broken down and excreted.