cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/26476469
The corporate media says Putin wants to take over the world, and Trump says Zelenskyy somehow managed to trick the US into supporting him — but the reality is that NATO’s long-term strategy of expansion towards Russia’s borders made war inevitable.
The only REAL path towards peace is the abolition of NATO!
Maybe Baltic States,Poland, Czechia etc. just want to give a big, fat fu*k to USSR after decades od ocupation?
Edit Jest noticed, that this map split Czechoslovakia before it even happened.
The Soviet Union was dissolved, countries normally don't react on emotions, but material conditions. Countries either join NATO, or are under constant threat from NATO, in which instance it makes far more sense to join it as a poor country devastated by the reintroduction of Capitalism.
I used your argument in a convo with a Redditor. Maybe you can help me with the rebuttal.
As they stated, Finland and Switzerland are Imperialist countries that have very different conditions from the devastated post-Soviet countries, who were treated with a carrot and stick approach. The Nordics have had a strategy of riding the wave, so to speak, investing very little and reaping the benefits from countries actually propping up Imperialism.
Essentially, they are landlords, and the US and other heavy NATO investors are the police state. The Russo-Ukrainian war spooked some of the Nordics into joining because they can no longer trust a "free ride" after Russia invaded Ukraine to avoid triggering Article 5, that doesn't mean NATO isn't coercive or Imperialist.
Do you have anything on their argument that they keep hammering down on how alléguele post soviets countries took over a decade to join?
I don't think it's particularly relevant, Capitalism wasn't a nuke that obliterated 7 million people instantly, it did so rapidly but unfolded and people reacted over time. History isn't an instant series of chain reactions, but contradictions working themselves out.
That said, no offense, but I wouldn't engage people unless you're confident in being able to pull off the argument.
Yeah, I am not as knowledgeable as Russian-Ukrainian relations as I should. I just posted the PSL post on Reddit and got bombarded with rebuttals which I don’t know how to address a lot of them
Edit: Your argument was sound so I used it, but I didn’t know how to address the rest of the points so decided to ask you since I was using your argument.
Assuming you're a PSL cadre (or pro-PSL), I would personally recommend familiarizing yourself with some of the "spicier" topics before posting. I am sure there are PSL cadre who you can ask for guidance and resources before attempting agitprop.
Also, since you now are more familiar with what gets pushback, analyze what gets pushback, and what the weakest links are, and agitate those. For example, I think explaining why NATO is Imperialist is easier than trying to explain that NATO provoked Russia, the first conclusion however makes the second easier to grasp. Further, you can explain how Imperialist countries function, and then explain NATO's role in solidifying that, and connect it to the modern conflict.
Just my 2 cents
Or get this we don't want to get invaded again.
I'm sure some people believed that too, but NATO isn't a charity case. It's dominated by the US and is used to advance Imperialist interests through measures like Operation Gladio. Well, it's dominated by the US for now, looks like that may change this admin.
So You say, that Finland and Sweden was under constant threat from NATO before 2022, and decided to join it?
Finland and Sweden are Imperialist countries themselves, they just kinda coasted by without needing to commit to being in NATO because they thought they could get all of the benefits without committing.